Agenda for Wed evening

Tue Apr 7 21:53:20 EDT 2009

My wife's plans may have changed, and I might be able to make it tomorrow night.  Is 7pm at eagle still the plan?  Just to confirm...someone is bringing the laptop with spreadsheet in case I can't make it?

Mike
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve Gordon 
  To: eefc-core at workingcode.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:19 PM
  Subject: RE: Agenda for Wed evening

  That would be $110.72 per hour.  I bet some of those costs are in fact fixed costs (paid whether or not the plane leaves the ground) such as insurance and annual inspection.  I’d be interested to see a line item breakdown and split that number into fixed costs vs. hourly costs.  Would your friend be willing to share his logs or perhaps even group his costs into specific categories (fuel, annual, insurance, etc)?  That would probably be a good sanity check and might point out something we may have otherwise missed.

  Thanks,

  -Steve

  From: williammccann at comcast.net [mailto:williammccann at comcast.net] 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 7:57 PM
  To: Steve Gordon
  Cc: eefc-core at workingcode.com
  Subject: Re: Agenda for Wed evening

  Steve - I asked a friend who owns a C172M  based at Klwm , who keeps a log of actual time,fuel ,repairs, insurance,and anything associated with the plane ,what the cost to operate the plane for the year 2008 . His total cost for 112 hrs were $12,400.00 .These are operating costs only. Maybe we can use these numbers for comparison.

  Bill Mc

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Steve Gordon" <steve at media-phile.com>
  To: eefc-core at workingcode.com
  Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2009 6:27:30 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
  Subject: RE: Agenda for Wed evening

  I made some alterations to the spreadsheet and sent it to Mike.  Since Mike owns the spreadsheet I wanted to give him a chance to review it before I sent it to the rest of the group.

  The changes I made were to the 2nd worksheet: Buy a plane.  Rather than have two different sections, one with and one without financing, I added a “% Down” field that is editable so we can vary the amount financed.  I consolidated the outputs into “One Time cost, Monthly Dues, and Rate Per Hour” as I think those are the three key costs that all members will need to understand.  I also locked down the spreadsheet so only those fields that are meant to be edited are editable.  I think that will help avoid confusion if/when we send this out to the others.

  I’ve attached the updated spreadsheet with my changes.  Constructive criticism is always welcomed.

  Thanks,

  -Steve

  From: eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of Bob Irving
  Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 5:42 PM
  To: mike.lysik at comcast.net; eefc-core at workingcode.com
  Subject: RE: Agenda for Wed evening

  I can bring a laptop with the spreadsheet. I only know of one version of the spreadsheet – the original.  Is there a new version?

  From: eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of mike.lysik at comcast.net
  Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 5:29 PM
  To: eefc-core at workingcode.com
  Subject: Re: Agenda for Wed evening

  Liability insurance is a good topic, and a lawyer should be consulted.  Maybe someone knows a lawyer that would offer to help.  A friend at work belonged to a flying club/group at one time, and they had a policy on the plane(in the situation where it damaged something or someone), and then each member had his/her own add-on policy if they wanted or needed extra coverage.  The extra coverage was on their own dime.

  For tomorrow night...I think that if we each bring any necessary fixed or variable costs that we don't yet have, and then work them into the spreadsheet, we'll have a pretty good understanding of what it will cost to run the club.  Then we can start communicating with the others that are interested.  Buying vs. leasing from Eagle could also be brought to the entire group while we show the pro's and con's of each.

  I may not be able to make it tomorrow night, would someone be able to bring the spreadsheet with Steve's updates, maybe on a laptop so you can make changes on the fly?

  It may be too early, but I'm a little hesitant on the Eagle deal because the club doesn't end up owning the plane after paying Eagle's note.

  Mike
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: williammccann at comcast.net
  To: "Bob Irving" <rhirving at verizon.net>
  Cc: eefc-core at workingcode.com
  Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2009 5:01:40 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
  Subject: Re: Agenda for Wed evening

  Bob - I did a little research on the Garmin 430W GPS, /nav/com with Glideslope and moving map.Pricing is about $8,100.00 and around $2000 to install. The cost for an annual is more like $ 2200.00 ,  so maybe we can hold Eagle @ the $1500 estimate.Purchase options and length of lease are addressed .Can you ask Tim if the current lien-holder allows sub - leasing of their aircraft. Also, is the pilots liability insurance included in the $4500.00 fixed cost or should the individual be responsible to carry additional renters insurance.   Does anybody have any objections to a $ 250.00 initiation fee and a returnable $ 250.00 security deposit required when joining the club.

  Thanks

  Bill McCann

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Bob Irving" <rhirving at verizon.net>
  To: toddmbs at yahoo.com, williammccann at comcast.net, "mike lysik" <mike.lysik at comcast.net>
  Cc: eefc-core at workingcode.com
  Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2009 1:57:48 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
  Subject: RE: Agenda for Wed evening

  Todd – I agree that “there is owed more on it than it is worth.”  So – I have asked Sean to get Tim to specify the deal and I have asked them if they would be willing to do an avionics upgrade, a fresh annual and an IFR certification – all before we take over.  I’ve also asked for a specific residual number or buyout fee once the note is paid off.  976 may not make sense financially when compared to the option of buying something.  But buying something presents a whole new set of issues.  

  Tim is out of town but Sean promises to get back to me. We’ll see. 

  Bob

  From: toddmbs at yahoo.com [mailto:toddmbs at yahoo.com] 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 1:11 PM
  To: williammccann at comcast.net; 'mike lysik'; Bob Irving
  Cc: eefc-core at workingcode.com
  Subject: RE: Agenda for Wed evening

        Gentlmen,

        I have to say that this may the fastest combined effort that I've seen on anything in a long time.  This is great, I like what I'm seeing.

        I would say that having an agenda is definitely needed at some point.  We should probably develop a time line and goals to expect.  Things will be defined the further we get obviously.  At the minimum, what we have right now for certain is 7 pilots hho want an airplane to fly as much as possible at a reasonable cost. 

        Mike, good spreadsheet.  Those numbers are closer to what I was expecting.  Going under my philosophy of "assumptions x 2" the cost would still be within my expectations.

        Bob, we need to get Tim to give us what his exact plan is with 976.  I'm sure he wants to make money on it because it's only costing them at this point, and I'm guessing that there is owed more on than it is worth.  It is the path of least resistence, however, a 15 year mortgage on a $50k plane that is ready to go will cost less per month than basically leasing 976 at $650/mo (if that is the option here).

        I'll bring my financial calculator tommorrow, any material I can find about setting up by-laws, etc, and a sample flyer that we can post.

        Jim, I don't know how you have this network set up. Am I double sending these e-mails?

        Todd

        --- On Mon, 4/6/09, Bob Irving <rhirving at verizon.net> wrote:

          From: Bob Irving <rhirving at verizon.net>
          Subject: RE: Agenda for Wed evening
          To: williammccann at comcast.net, "'mike lysik'" <mike.lysik at comcast.net>
          Cc: eefc-core at workingcode.com
          Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 3:19 PM

          I’m in the process of trying to do that but Tim is out of town until tomorrow. I will catch up with him before the meeting and get answers.

        Bob 

        From: eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of williammccann at comcast.net
        Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 3:14 PM
        To: mike lysik
        Cc: eefc-core at workingcode.com
        Subject: Re: Agenda for Wed evening

        I'm in agreement with Mike , we should treat this as a pilot program with six people. The price that Eagle East is asking , and all of the upgrades

        needed , will determine ( speaking for myself ) if I would be interested. If you are looking to add on an Instrument Rating in the future , or just for situational awareness , 976 needs a new avionics package.Why not negotiate a firm price with Tim so we no where to start with the numbers . 

        Thanks,

        Bill McCann

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "mike lysik" <mike.lysik at comcast.net>
        To: "Bob Irving" <rhirving at verizon.net>
        Cc: eefc-core at workingcode.com
        Sent: Monday, April 6, 2009 2:21:51 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
        Subject: Re: Agenda for Wed evening

        I like the thought of having an agenda, but some of the items may be premature.  Maybe we keep the hit list short and just determine if the total cost of doing this is acceptable with the six of us, and if so, agree on our next steps.

        Thanks

        Mike  
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Bob Irving" <rhirving at verizon.net>
        To: eefc-core at workingcode.com
        Sent: Monday, April 6, 2009 1:22:25 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
        Subject: Agenda for Wed evening

        Attached is a proposed agenda. Do we need to add anything? 

        _______________________________________________ eefc-core mailing list eefc-core at workingcode.com https://www.workingcode.com/mailman/listinfo/eefc-core 

        _______________________________________________ eefc-core mailing list eefc-core at workingcode.com https://www.workingcode.com/mailman/listinfo/eefc-core 
        -----Inline Attachment Follows-----

        _______________________________________________
        eefc-core mailing list
        eefc-core at workingcode.com
        https://www.workingcode.com/mailman/listinfo/eefc-core

  _______________________________________________ eefc-core mailing list eefc-core at workingcode.com https://www.workingcode.com/mailman/listinfo/eefc-core 

  _______________________________________________ eefc-core mailing list eefc-core at workingcode.com https://www.workingcode.com/mailman/listinfo/eefc-core 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  _______________________________________________
  eefc-core mailing list
  eefc-core at workingcode.com
  https://www.workingcode.com/mailman/listinfo/eefc-core
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.workingcode.com/pipermail/eefc-core/attachments/20090407/927cc3d2/attachment-0001.html