survey

[James Carlson]

Todd Brooks writes:
> I guess it is ok to ask the potential members this early.  But I would make it perfectly clear in a separare paragraph with Bold letter, that this is only to figure out a price threshhold for the members in order to purchase our first plane, and these are only examples and not actual choices  (or something like that).

Yes, that's similar to one of the comments I had: make it good and
obvious that these are just examples, and not the exact ones.  It says
this on the introductory page, but it's possible that some will still
misunderstand.

Todd Brooks writes:
> 5. The initial down-payment could be structured to where a member gets vested after so much of a time period.  This will first lock in a member so they don't just leave after a month and we're stuck with less cash.  It also gives some of our money back after we're up and flying.  For example (making up numbers here): if we take $1000 upfront per member, half of that can be returned in 6 months if they leave and 3/4 can returned in 12 months if they leave.  Then after a year we can take a vote and decide what we do with the down-payment; return some of it, all of it or use it towards another plane for example.  (Just a thought)

Interesting idea, but I think we'd have to run through some numbers to
see if it'd work.  As stated, it seems a little unfair if someone has
to leave early due to financial hardship; they get less use of the
plane and yet pay more.  But if it's $1000 per member, and you start
off 50% vested, that's probably not _too_ much of a risk.

> 6. Going back to 976, I'm missing a gap somewhere in this financing scheme.  Why would we have to pony up $18,000?  That would leave only a $25,000 (roughly) loan.  Why can't we refinance the whole thing at $40k-ish and give Tim is money. Then we only have to come up with $4,000 ($267 / 15 member).

The difference is _only_ in whom we owe.  If we come up with (likely
finance) the $18,000, then we pay a small amount to the bank, and the
balance to Tim.  If we buy it outright, then we pay a larger amount to
the bank alone.

Either we owe (using your numbers) $18,000 to a bank and $22,000 to
Tim, or we owe $40,000 to a bank.  The sums are essentially the same
either way, as are the total payments.

Paying Tim is slightly better because he's in a position to give us
better terms.  The bank doesn't know us from Adam, and will want more
than just the plane as collateral.

I think there's not a great deal right now to recommend 976 versus
other things we've looked at, but the idea of being able to borrow
much less from a bank is one thing in the plus column.

>   And can't we finance it after the plane gets outfitted with new avs? Hence, finance the Garmin.

Yes ... that's similar to what I was saying, and what I think Steve
agreed to.  Financing the upgrades up front, assuming we can do that,
makes things a bit simpler and gets rid of the headache of figuring
out how to handle that initial payment.

The actual mechanics of the deal are something we'll have to work on.
Maybe we agree on a price for the plane with new avionics, get the
loan for that total amount, and part of the purchase price goes to EE
to buy and install the gear.

-- 
James Carlson         42.703N 71.076W         <carlsonj at workingcode.com>