976 price

Wed Apr 15 16:11:05 EDT 2009

All,

I will say that this deal does not make me happy.  

First, N61976 can not worth $35,000 (without an engine) at all.  The $35k + 15k for the
engine that
makes up $50,000 does not even include the navs, transponder etc (Bob correct me that is wrong) .  We still want to
add upwards of $10-15k to fix it up.  We're not talking about $50k,
we're now really talking about $60-65k.  But I will say the engine is a good
deal, assuming that it's been rebuilt well.

Second, I'm not sure where the translation was lost but this clique about EE playing the bank is just not the case.  We will paying off they're loan, paying for the engine, paying for upgrades and then making payments to EE for what they consider their equity (or really profit).  They a not doing us a favor.  And by tying us to these payments, they're really just guaranteeing that we will pay them for fuel and work on the plane.

Third, we went from $30-40k with full financing, to $50-60k with us buying 60% of it and making payments on their profit.

This is not a good deal.  We can buy better for less.  I also thought about it this way - I could buy the plane straight out with my own equity and sell it back to the club and 'play the bank' myself, but not this price.  $50k, as is, for that plane is just not a good price.  It's a trainer that has been worn out.

So, I my vote is no on this one.

Todd

--- On Wed, 4/15/09, Bob Irving <rhirving at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Bob Irving <rhirving at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: 976 price
To: "'Eagle East Flying Club Core Team'" <eefc-core at workingcode.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 15, 2009, 2:49 PM

Yes –
33k up front is a given unless we offered less than 33k up front 

From:
eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of Steve Gordon

Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009
2:32 PM

To: 'Eagle East Flying Club Core
Team'

Subject: RE: 976 price 

Sure
we could offer 30K.  I doubt that EE would agree to that.  If they
did, then they would stand to take a loss on 3K. 

Even
if we offered 40K, I understand that we would still need to pay 33K of that up
front and 7K would be financed by EE.  Is that right? 

-Steve 

From:
eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of Bob Irving

Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009
2:20 PM

To: 'Eagle East Flying Club Core
Team'

Subject: RE: 976 price 

We
could offer any amount we wanted… say 30k for 976 with zero time engine. But
anything less than 33k would need to be paid up front. Of course, EE might not
be willing to sell at 30k total. 

From:
eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode..com] On Behalf Of Steve Gordon

Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009
2:13 PM

To: 'Eagle East Flying Club Core
Team'

Subject: RE: 976 price 

If we
agreed upon a price less than 50K for the plane, then I would imagine that savings
would come out of the EE financed portion of the price.  We would still
have to pay off the 18K loan and pay for the 15K new engine, totaling a 33K
upfront cost.  Is that right?  

-Steve 

From:
eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of Bob Irving

Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009
1:55 PM

To: 'Eagle East Flying Club Core
Team'

Subject: RE: 976 price 

Or we
could offer less than 50k for the plane…. 

From:
eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of Steve Gordon

Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009
12:38 PM

To: 'Eagle East Flying Club Core
Team'

Subject: RE: 976 price 

I
think we’re up against a wall with the 33K upfront cost.  15K for the
engine is what it is (and I agree with Bill, that’s not a bad price)..  If
Eagle is firm about us paying off the 18K note, then that also is what it
is.  The only way to lower individual upfront costs would be to split that
cost between more members. 

-Steve 

From:
eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of mike.lysik at comcast.net

Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009
12:34 PM

To: Eagle East Flying Club Core
Team

Subject: Re: 976 price 

I understand that EE is the bank
on the remaining 17k, which I don't mind.  It's the amount of initial up
front costs that I'm not in favor of.  When I mentioned someone would have
to be on the hook, it was for the 33k portion.  I'd still like to be
involved if the we can figure how to lower the up front cost. 

Mike

----- Original Message -----

From: "Bob Irving" <rhirving at verizon.net>

To: "Eagle East Flying Club Core Team"
<eefc-core at workingcode.com>

Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:09:58 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

Subject: RE: 976 price 

Mike – this proposal assumes Eagle East
is the bank so there is no personal liability. Im going to record your vote as
“no” on 976. 

Bob 

From: eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com
[mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On
Behalf Of mike.lysik at comcast.net

Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009
12:01 PM

To: Eagle East Flying Club Core
Team

Subject: Re: 976 price 

So we need to come up with $33k,
then pay off an additional 17k.  If this is going to work, as we already
know, someone will have to step up and be "on the hook" for the $33k
loan.  If that's the case, then there are other planes out there that are
nicer for less $.  It doesn't seem to be as easy/nice a deal as was
initially presented to us. 

Just saw Steve's email regarding
the up front costs.  If I'm going to join a flying club, I'd rather not
have such a large up front cost.  I just can't justify it.  As
one of us pointed out during our first meeting, one can join an
existing club at LWM for very little out of pocket.  I think it was
$45 per month and $75-$99 per hour depending on which plane is used.  That
club may be more restrictive than we want, but the price is more in line
with what I was looking for.    

Mike 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Bob Irving" <rhirving at verizon.net>

To: "Eagle East Flying Club Core Team"
<eefc-core at workingcode.com>

Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 10:15:44 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

Subject: 976 price 

Spoke to Tim this morning. The 50k price tag on 976 would require
a down payment from the club sufficient to pay off the note (about 18,000) plus
the cost of engine from Penn Yan (about 15,000) leaving a balance of 17,000
that Eagle East will finance.  No details on rate and/or term. 

So far only two of you have commented.  Please provide some
input – we need to arrive at a consensus on this.  Thanks. 

Bob 

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