976 price

Wed Apr 15 17:27:27 EDT 2009

I think it’s a moot point – at 35k they certainly wont be doing much to it. Without an engine it’s useless anyway.

From: eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of Todd Brooks
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 5:06 PM
To: Eagle East Flying Club Core Team
Subject: RE: 976 price

I thought so to, but Bob wrote this:

Todd – for 35K aircraft is “as is”. Meaning nothing would be done. Run out engine with missing log books. Bad transponder, questionable radios, probably not IFR certified. Etc. 

Bob

So... I don't know.  If they were new (or near new) navs, comms, and transponder, I might bite on it.  But not to rub some polish on what's there now.

--- On Wed, 4/15/09, Steve Gordon <steve at media-phile.com> wrote:

From: Steve Gordon <steve at media-phile.com>
Subject: RE: 976 price
To: "'Eagle East Flying Club Core Team'" <eefc-core at workingcode.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 15, 2009, 4:52 PM

Todd, I believe the deal includes servicing the transponder and radios and a fresh IFR certification whether or not we purchase the engine upgrade.

“I met with Sean and Bill this am. We came up with a 35K price without an engine 50K with engine,and of course  working navs and comms and working transponder.(IFR certified)” –Tim

-Steve

From: eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of Todd Brooks
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:11 PM
To: Eagle East Flying Club Core Team
Subject: RE: 976 price

All,
I will say that this deal does not make me happy.  

First, N61976 can not worth $35,000 (without an engine) at all.  The $35k + 15k for the engine that makes up $50,000 does not even include the navs, transponder etc (Bob correct me that is wrong) .  We still want to add upwards of $10-15k to fix it up.  We're not talking about $50k, we're now really talking about $60-65k.  But I will say the engine is a good deal, assuming that it's been rebuilt well.

Second, I'm not sure where the translation was lost but this clique about EE playing the bank is just not the case.  We will paying off they're loan, paying for the engine, paying for upgrades and then making payments to EE for what they consider their equity (or really profit).  They a not doing us a favor.  And by tying us to these payments, they're really just guaranteeing that we will pay them for fuel and work on the plane.

Third, we went from $30-40k with full financing, to $50-60k with us buying 60% of it and making payments on their profit.

This is not a good deal.  We can buy better for less.  I also thought about it this way - I could buy the plane straight out with my own equity and sell it back to the club and 'play the bank' myself, but not this price.  $50k, as is, for that plane is just not a good price.  It's a trainer that has been worn out.

So, I my vote is no on this one.

Todd

--- On Wed, 4/15/09, Bob Irving <rhirving at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Bob Irving <rhirving at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: 976 price
To: "'Eagle East Flying Club Core Team'" <eefc-core at workingcode.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 15, 2009, 2:49 PM

Yes – 33k up front is a given unless we offered less than 33k up front

From: eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of Steve Gordon
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 2:32 PM
To: 'Eagle East Flying Club Core Team'
Subject: RE: 976 price

Sure we could offer 30K.  I doubt that EE would agree to that.  If they did, then they would stand to take a loss on 3K.

Even if we offered 40K, I understand that we would still need to pay 33K of that up front and 7K would be financed by EE.  Is that right?

-Steve

From: eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of Bob Irving
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 2:20 PM
To: 'Eagle East Flying Club Core Team'
Subject: RE: 976 price

We could offer any amount we wanted… say 30k for 976 with zero time engine. But anything less than 33k would need to be paid up front. Of course, EE might not be willing to sell at 30k total.

From: eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of Steve Gordon
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 2:13 PM
To: 'Eagle East Flying Club Core Team'
Subject: RE: 976 price

If we agreed upon a price less than 50K for the plane, then I would imagine that savings would come out of the EE financed portion of the price.  We would still have to pay off the 18K loan and pay for the 15K new engine, totaling a 33K upfront cost.  Is that right? 

-Steve

From: eefc-core-bounces at workingcode..com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of Bob Irving
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 1:55 PM
To: 'Eagle East Flying Club Core Team'
Subject: RE: 976 price

Or we could offer less than 50k for the plane….

From: eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of Steve Gordon
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:38 PM
To: 'Eagle East Flying Club Core Team'
Subject: RE: 976 price

I think we’re up against a wall with the 33K upfront cost.  15K for the engine is what it is (and I agree with Bill, that’s not a bad price).  If Eagle is firm about us paying off the 18K note, then that also is what it is.  The only way to lower individual upfront costs would be to split that cost between more members.

-Steve

From: eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of mike.lysik at comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:34 PM
To: Eagle East Flying Club Core Team
Subject: Re: 976 price

I understand that EE is the bank on the remaining 17k, which I don't mind.  It's the amount of initial up front costs that I'm not in favor of.  When I mentioned someone would have to be on the hook, it was for the 33k portion.  I'd still like to be involved if the we can figure how to lower the up front cost.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Irving" <rhirving at verizon.net>
To: "Eagle East Flying Club Core Team" <eefc-core at workingcode.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:09:58 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: 976 price

Mike – this proposal assumes Eagle East is the bank so there is no personal liability. Im going to record your vote as “no” on 976.

Bob

From: eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com [mailto:eefc-core-bounces at workingcode.com] On Behalf Of mike.lysik at comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:01 PM
To: Eagle East Flying Club Core Team
Subject: Re: 976 price

So we need to come up with $33k, then pay off an additional 17k.  If this is going to work, as we already know, someone will have to step up and be "on the hook" for the $33k loan.  If that's the case, then there are other planes out there that are nicer for less $.  It doesn't seem to be as easy/nice a deal as was initially presented to us.

Just saw Steve's email regarding the up front costs.  If I'm going to join a flying club, I'd rather not have such a large up front cost.  I just can't justify it.  As one of us pointed out during our first meeting, one can join an existing club at LWM for very little out of pocket.  I think it was $45 per month and $75-$99 per hour depending on which plane is used.  That club may be more restrictive than we want, but the price is more in line with what I was looking for.   

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Irving" <rhirving at verizon.net>
To: "Eagle East Flying Club Core Team" <eefc-core at workingcode.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 10:15:44 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: 976 price

Spoke to Tim this morning. The 50k price tag on 976 would require a down payment from the club sufficient to pay off the note (about 18,000) plus the cost of engine from Penn Yan (about 15,000) leaving a balance of 17,000 that Eagle East will finance.  No details on rate and/or term.

So far only two of you have commented.  Please provide some input – we need to arrive at a consensus on this.  Thanks.

Bob

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